In this episode, Sarah sits down with Santiago Gowland, CEO of the Rainforest Alliance and former sustainability leader at Unilever, Nike, and The Nature Conservancy, to discuss how markets can drive regenerative agriculture, reduce biodiversity loss, and combat deforestation through innovative partnerships and consumer action.
About Our Guest
Santiago Gowland is the Chief Executive Officer of the Rainforest Alliance, an international nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting forests, improving the livelihoods of farmers and forest communities, and addressing the climate crisis through regenerative agriculture and sustainable land-use practices.
Before joining the Rainforest Alliance, Santiago served as Executive Vice President for Latin America and Global Innovation at The Nature Conservancy, one of the world’s largest conservation organizations. In that role, he oversaw operations across 17 countries, managed over 300 staff members, and spearheaded innovative sustainability initiatives in collaboration with public and private sector leaders to address Latin America’s most pressing environmental challenges, including water security, smart infrastructure, and sustainable agriculture.
Earlier in his career, he was Senior Vice President of Global Corporate Innovation at the Estée Lauder Companies, leading the company’s breakthrough innovation platforms and external partnerships. Before that, Santiago directed sustainable business strategies at Nike, creating system-wide initiatives and collaborating with NASA, the U.S. Department of State, and USAID on global innovation programs. He also served as Vice President of Global Sustainable Development and Corporate Brand Strategy at Unilever, catalyzing environmental and social sustainability integration into the company’s core brand and innovation strategies.
Transcript
Santiago Gowland 0:00
And when you think about it, agriculture is 40% of the global employment, and it’s 15% of the global GDP. So imagine if agriculture, rather than being a driver of habitat loss, was actually forced to restore, regenerate, and, you know, heal those ecosystems of which our lives depend. So this is really the question that marked my whole career. How can we change markets to become the solution?
Sarah Johnson 0:27
Welcome to the Pathway Podcast. I’m your host, Sarah Johnson, and thank you for joining us for this episode. Pathway to Tomorrow is a nonprofit with initiatives in housing, environmental conservation, and water security. In this podcast series, we engage with leaders working on solving some of the world’s most challenging problems by exploring innovative solutions being implemented by leading NGOs, nonprofits, think tanks, companies, and institutions focused on issues like homelessness, environmental conservation, climate change, and water security.
Sarah Johnson 1:04
Our guest today is Santiago Gowland, Chief Executive Officer of the Rainforest Alliance. Prior to joining the Rainforest Alliance, Santiago served as the Executive Vice President for Latin America and global innovation for The Nature Conservancy, one of the largest conservation organizations in the world. In his role as managing director for Latin America, he worked with more than 300 staff members in 17 countries and led the Latin American Conservation Council, an unprecedented group of leaders working with the Nature Conservancy to identify solutions to help tackle Latin America’s greatest environmental challenges, including water security, sustainable food production and smart infrastructure. In his role as head of Global Innovation for The Nature Conservancy, Santiago was the executive champion for their green technology strategy, systems innovation capabilities, agility lab, and collaboration with technology companies. Before joining the Nature Conservancy, Santiago was a senior vice president of global corporate innovation at the Estée Lauder Companies, where he led breakthrough innovation platforms, external partnerships, and corporate innovation strategy across the company’s brands and business units.
Sarah Johnson 2:16
Previously, Santiago created the systems innovation function at Nike, leading market transformation work and heading public and private partnerships that scaled up sustainability strategies and accelerated innovation to enable system change. Santiago oversaw Mikey’s collaboration with NASA, the United States Department of State, and the United States Agency for International Development to develop LAUNCH, a global initiative supporting world-changing sustainable business innovations. Earlier in Santiago’s career, he was the vice president of global sustainable development and corporate brand strategy at Unilever, where he catalyzed their corporate transformation by leading the integration of social, economic, and environmental strategies into brand innovation. Created a Unilever sustainable living plan framework, and developed their corporate brand strategy and marketing plan. Santiago, it’s such a pleasure to have you on today. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us.
Santiago Gowland 3:09
Thank you so much, Sarah.
Sarah Johnson3:10
So, Santiago, to start us off, you started your career as the vice president of sustainable development for Unilever, before joining Nike as a general manager for sustainable business and innovation. You then worked at the Estée Lauder Companies as SVP of global corporate innovation. Before your current role, you were the executive VP for global innovation and managing director for the Latin American region at The Nature Conservancy. Can you tell us more about your career choices and how all of these experiences informed your current role as CEO of the Rainforest Alliance?
Santiago Gowland 3:42
Yeah, thank you, Sarah, I was born like you in a generation that I think is marked by an unprecedented crisis on global warming, the climate crisis, and biodiversity collapse of ecosystems, as well as a generation where we can still see poverty, particularly in rural areas, that is really severe. And so when you think about it, the role that markets play on all these areas, when you look at deforestation and climate, you know 80% of deforestation is driven by the expansion of agriculture frontiers and the food systems, and that is also affecting the biodiversity collapse, because they are running out of a habitat. You know, when you cut those tropical forests, and when you look at communities working those areas, 80% live in poverty. So definitely, you know, a market needs to change. And throughout my whole kind of career at Unilever, still Nike, and then in the NGO sector, this has been the single kind of idea. How can we turn markets from being the main driver of habitat loss and social injustice to becoming the main solution? And when you think about it, agriculture is 40% of the global employment. It’s 15% of the global GDP. So imagine if agriculture, rather than being a driver of habitat loss, was actually forced to restore, regenerate, and, you know, heal those ecosystems on which our lives depend. So this is really the question that marked my whole career. How can we change markets to become the solution?
Sarah Johnson 5:22
That’s incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that, Santiago, it’s a great ambition that you’ve taken on. So could you, could you share a bit for us, Santiago, in your current work, how the Rainforest Alliance ensures that locally, forest communities are included and benefit from the sustainable practices that you’re promoting, especially in vulnerable regions?
Santiago Gowland 5:39
Yes, to a very large extent, local communities, when you think about commodities and when you think about food systems, have moving from pretty much forced labor, and in some cases even slavery, when you look back 100 years to acknowledging that communities are the actual stewards of these last chance ecosystems like tropical forest, and you have endless, you know, indigenous communities and farmer communities that are living in poverty. So the way the approach we take at the Rainforest Alliance is making sure we put communities at the center, that the work we do is really standing side by side with the producers so that they can, in a way, be empowered to receive value from the commodities and the economies of those tropical forests. So the rainforest lands with the certification system and the work we do in landscapes and community, what it’s trying to do is create a more equitable shared responsibility in value chains, so that producers benefit more from the production of those commodities, and when they benefit, then that’s the incentive they have not cut tropical forests because they’re receiving from the production a fair price for what they are producing.
Santiago Gowland 7:04
So that win-win situation that can be seen in many examples, right, of a community forest management or increasing productivity through regenerative agriculture, or, you know, strengthening the governance of those, you know, community systems, those projects and that those activities are the ones that put the producer at the center, and when the producer is at the center, benefiting irresistibly from being those stewards of critical ecosystems. Then you can see communities and nature thriving together in harmony, and that’s the approach we take at the Rainforest Alliance.
Sarah Johnson 7:46
Thank you for sharing that, Santiago that makes a lot of sense. For my next question, I’d like to understand what are the biggest challenges the Rainforest Alliance faces in enforcing sustainable practices in certified farms, especially in regions with high rates of illegal deforestation?
Santiago Gowland 8:02
Yes, there’s various, various challenges. You know, the first one, as I mentioned, is the ability of communities to benefit economically from being those stewards in the case of Guatemala, for example, you have the Mayan forest, right? And this is a biosphere that is one of the most important in the planet in terms of tropical forests, because of the biodiversity it contains and the living carbon, because all those trees hold, you know, a lot of the carbon that is not going to the atmosphere. So by working in empowering those community-based or community forest management, we’ve been able to achieve, you know, around 70,000 people benefiting from this work in 500,000 hectares. And the trick there has been proper integration between government concessions, the community-based management, supported by the Rainforest Alliance, and the access to markets that really pay the, you know, the full price of that wood that comes from from those first three areas.
Santiago Gowland 9:09
But the trick here is, how do you combine community and farm management with an integral landscape perspective, right? And so the internal landscape perspective requires some work around pre-competitive coalitions with companies, and also going a little bit deeper into the social and the ecological systems in a given landscape, like it could be the Amazon forest or the Mayan forest, or Sui River in Ghana, or Mount Kenya. All these really special places need to have an integral perspective of how you gotta to develop them in a way that people in nature can benefit.
Sarah Johnson 9:51
Thank you for sharing that. Santiago, for my next question, and you touched on this a bit in your prior answer. What role do partnerships with Governments, businesses, and local communities play in achieving your deforestation reduction goals? And how do you ensure these partnerships are sustainable?
Santiago Gowland 10:09
Yes, in a way, when you think about the mission of the Rainforest Alliance, you realize that you know, the sustainable agriculture or regenerative agriculture systems, in a way, which are the standards that we have on certification — they help producers farm in a way that is more sustainable without deforestation. But also, they farm in a way that is more productive. It creates better yields. It gives more resilience to changes in climate and more adaptation. Also, if you look at coffee, for example, by 2050, 50% of the land for coffee will be gone. So the need to invest in more resilient ecosystems in those key origins, like Brazil, Colombia, Vietnam, all these coffee, you know, countries is super fundamental. Now, you know, producers can’t do this alone. They need markets to then provide the premiums and the payments for that value that nature and people are bringing to the coffee production. And so that’s one of the areas we work with 7000 companies in coffee, cocoa, tea, bananas, etc, so they can really create that shared responsibility system.
Santiago Gowland 11:25
But that’s not enough. They need also governments to align their subsidies, incentives, payment for ecosystem services, tax schemes, etc., so they can create an enabling environment for that value to be captured by the producer, and those investments to be feasible in the country. And on top of that, you need investors, and today, that community is growing exponentially in terms of impact investors to also join this blended, in a way, finance — or this private public partnership approach — where investors are also being able to support the transition of agriculture towards most generative systems by providing capital that helps farmers make that transition. Because you can’t imagine that the transition of agriculture will happen only at the back of the balance sheet of big companies. You need a blended finance system in order to make that happen.
Santiago Gowland 12:17
And so that’s, in a way — when you have those integrated interests, the producer benefits because there’s more yield, more productivity, more resilience. The companies benefit because they have, you know, they avoid the risk of operational disruption in their supplies, but also they build more trust. They build more quality in the, you know, in the products, and more consumer pool, in a way. Governments benefit because they are securing those origins of key commodities as a key source in place, and that gives them exports, and it helps, you know, with the balance of payments, by bringing hard currency to the country and investors who are looking for a high-return impact investment. By partnering with supply chains, and partnering with governments and multilaterals, they can really maximize the impact of their financing mechanisms so they contribute to these transitions. So there is a way when this is designed in a reinforcing, beneficial way for all these actors that public-private partnerships can really have, you know, sustainable future.
Sarah Johnson 13:28
Thank you for sharing that, Santiago, that’s quite a jarring statistic — that 50% of the land for coffee will be gone relatively soon for, especially for those of us who rely on coffee or love it so much.
Santiago Gowland 13:38
Exactly.
Sarah Johnson 13:39
So for my next question, Santiago, I want to ask, given your experience in both the corporate world and environmental conservation, what do you see as the most promising ways that corporations and industries like agriculture, forestry, and consumer goods can reduce their environmental footprint?
Santiago Gowland 13:55
Well, this, you know, companies are in — they go through three stages, really. When you look at where companies started, they started by trying to understand, what were the impacts, right? And that’s the whole Global Reporting Initiative, the whole wave of almost, like, sustainability as an accounting system — what are my impacts, my direct and indirect impacts on, you know, climate, on biodiversity, on sort of social development, etc. But, you know, and that became like a compliance agenda, so companies began to report around their impacts, etc. But that’s not enough, because it’s treating sustainability as a risk only and not as a critical business imperative for, you know, future development.
Santiago Gowland 14:39
Now, companies that will succeed in the future are those that are able to translate those sustainability strategies from compliance into a really integral level of value creation for the corporate strategy. So integrating that into supply chain innovation — into brand innovation as well, because 80% of the fast moving consumer goods companies like Unilever or Nike etc. — is on the brands. So you need to be able to connect this agenda also for consumer, you know, empowerment or consumer equity. So, you know, like, when you think about the integration agenda — which I think some companies are in — it’s not enough, either, because what companies are needing to do right now is, how can they collaborate at a pre-competitive level?
Santiago Gowland 15:31
I mean, it’s kind of a stage of radical collaboration to really look at some of these systemic failures, like human rights abuses, or child labor, or deforestation; how can they work together, joining forces in those key landscapes to create initiatives that really can tackle the systemic barriers for that — which are sometimes, you know, deep, and they require different kinds of investments. And that’s the era we are ushering in today, in terms of how companies in different sectors, like cocoa or coffee, are looking at ways to collaborate more deeply so that they avoid this fragmented, you know, even competitive or duplicative approach to sustainability that can only bear incremental results, to move towards a more systemic shift of entire systems of production, that can not only provide more resilience in their sourcing places, but also fix some of these issues that are so pervasive in some of the countries of origin.
Sarah Johnson 16:38
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that, Santiago. So my last question, Santiago, I like to ask all of our guests. For those of us listening — you know, who want to understand what we can do as individuals, as well as members of the public and private sectors — what behavior changes should take place in the public and private sectors, as well as on an individual basis, to help advance SDG 12, ensuring sustainable consumption patterns, and SDG 15, protecting, restoring, and promoting sustainable land use.
Santiago Gowland 17:08
Yes. I mean, that’s, that’s, for me, the critical question, Sarah — because when — and that’s the beauty of the Rainforest Alliance. The Rainforest Alliance has a system about working with a producer, who’s the one that gives us a mandate for our mission. But what we are working on is in connecting, in an alliance, the producer — the farmer — with the consumer. And that’s why we have a brand, and the frog, right? And the seal. So in a way, when you’re buying, you know, coffee, or chocolate, that is certified with the Rainforest Alliance brand, what you’re doing is you’re having a choice of being part of that solution, being part of an organization that is standing side-by-side with a producer to bring the technical assistance, the training, the market, access, the premiums, the financing, so they can really improve the footprint of the production. And that, in a way, secures the long term sustainability. So by consumers being able to make that choice, to look what’s behind a brand, to understand whether, you know, raw materials come from, to be able to reward with their purchase companies and brands that are trying to do the right thing is, you know, a big benefit.
Santiago Gowland 18:15
Remember, the sustainability crisis is not just a technical science crisis or policy crisis, even. It is, more than anything, a consumer or marketing crisis, because, unless we mobilize the billions of people that are buying coffee and chocolate today, to buy a coffee that gives more than it takes from communities and the environment — a coffee that has a net positive impact on people and nature — until that happens, you know, then we’re not going to be able to leverage consumption or consumerism as a force for good, and also not a force for degradation. So imagine, I mean, if you think about coffee — which is such a kind of a huge, huge commodity, in terms of all of us drink coffee, or most of us every day — and if you were able to know that after you drink a cup of coffee, people and nature are better off — not worse off because of your choice — then there will be a hugely rewarding relationship between a consumer and a brand. And that’s what we’re shooting for.
Sarah Johnson 19:17
Absolutely. Santiago, thank you for sharing that. So we need to look out for the green frog, and we can drive sustainable choices with our purchases. So thank you so much again, Santiago, for joining us today. It’s been a pleasure to learn more about the Rainforest Alliance and your leadership in the spaces of conservation, regenerative agriculture and sustainable land management. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe to the pathway podcast to get alerts on new episodes featuring thought leaders working in housing, environmental conservation, climate change and water security.